tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post9040034261376933526..comments2024-02-17T14:57:50.954-05:00Comments on The Verdant Dude: The Artist and His/Her ArtVerdant Earlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03139591223231428391noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-65247378898602099132009-11-06T16:40:30.955-05:002009-11-06T16:40:30.955-05:00Badger - I agree that I was over-simplifying your ...Badger - I agree that I was over-simplifying your argument. Only because I felt your statement that the director is no more responsible for the final product than anyone else in the crew was an over-simplification on it's own. Yes, the final product is a huge collaboration. I just feel that the director has more responsibility and more sway on the outcome of the film than anyone else. That's all.<br /><br />From what I've read and seen, any director worth their salt is a script doctor, editor, cinematographer, etc... in his/her own right. The great ones all work with those individuals to achieve the desired outcome. That's what I meant.Verdant Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03139591223231428391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-24115190616433779542009-11-05T09:04:45.078-05:002009-11-05T09:04:45.078-05:00Wow, you really got some great comments from that ...Wow, you really got some great comments from that post Earl. Wicked!<br /><br />Still... I can't help but think you're simplifying what I'm saying. Maybe it's simply that we disagree on the importance of the director in a movie.<br />Not disagreeing about Towne's career, but that's not the point I was making - the point was about one Polanski film, which is the product of more than one great mind and very clearly so. There aren't that many movies out there that have such a ridiculously brilliant script, that you walk out of thinking 'Fuck me, what a brilliant script!' are there? So that's surely as much Towne's movie as Polanski's. And Evans got Nicholson cast in it, insisted on him taking the lead, too, and pushed to make the movie all the way through even though many thought it was unfilmable (or would be unwatchable).<br />I'm rambling. But movies are a huge team effort, with a million influences over the finished product. The fact that the director's name comes up before the title etc is down to unions as far as I can remember. Think back to the studio system, and the director just was not important - nobody was.<br /><br />Actually, thinking about it, if I stuck firmly to my principles and how I want to live my life, I would never watch another movie again. Most actors, directors and producers I've met are absolute arseholes who live in a fantasy land with no relation to reality at all.<br /><br />I re-read High Concept, the Don Simpson biography recently. It's still quite fresh in my mind...<br /><br />God, I really rambled there. I'll shut up now. Oh, I read the follow-up post too, which was really great also!badgerdaddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08275758525851693777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-59580003997136610782009-11-05T08:02:34.707-05:002009-11-05T08:02:34.707-05:00Not soon enough!
I like to imagine Matthew Brod...Not soon enough! <br /><br />I like to imagine Matthew Broderick paying his $175 fine and getting away with murder set to Yello's classic hit "Oh Yeah."<br /><br />Chick-Chicka-Chicka!<br /><br />PS-People who post anonymously are cowards who can shampoo my crotch.Water Logged Caninehttp://hearingvoices.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/wet-dog-web.jpgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-14523311714898046332009-11-05T07:58:47.520-05:002009-11-05T07:58:47.520-05:00Yeah, Anonymous is an idiot. You can't be wil...Yeah, Anonymous is an idiot. You can't be willing at 13.Avitablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08541188721193079705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-84124187050061795232009-11-05T02:11:04.210-05:002009-11-05T02:11:04.210-05:00Anon - Very concise defense of Polanski there. I ...Anon - Very concise defense of Polanski there. I have one retort...she was 13. I don't care about anything else. Imagine if she was your 13 year-old daughter.Verdant Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03139591223231428391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-69533162487652307842009-11-05T01:02:43.421-05:002009-11-05T01:02:43.421-05:00Polanski is a very poor example because the truth ...Polanski is a very poor example because the truth of the matter is very murky to say the least. This is a case where the devil is in the details yet everyone seems to somehow magically know what exactly happened 33 years ago.<br />The probation report found evidence that the victim was "willing". The mother notified the authorities. The victim did not intend to do so. Yet apparently the mother did not even attend her daughters testimony. The victim and her mother pushed hard for the plea bargain. Polanski did not and much later repudiated his plea bargain statement that he knew the victims age. Three witnesses said she could have passed for around 18. <br />The victim later stated that she thinks Polanski knew her age but does not say how? The victim much later said she said no but it was not rape.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-32276289122945475572009-11-04T23:45:12.466-05:002009-11-04T23:45:12.466-05:00ok
so what do you feel or rather, how would you f...ok<br /><br />so what do you feel or rather, how would you feel if you found out Derek Jeter was using steriods. <br /><br />I mean, can you separate the athlete from the game? <br /><br />that's an interesting question. I'm not really a huge sports fan (ignore the giant cheese wedge bobbing on my head)but yah der, what about your baseball love and steroid scandals. what does that do you as a fan?<br /><br />I have more to say about pollock I'm just too damn tired.<br /><br />peace out my bloggy blog friend. :)Mrs. Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15360433416733092249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-6422716667999067462009-11-04T22:30:49.882-05:002009-11-04T22:30:49.882-05:00Faiqa - well, he did pay a $175 fine for it.Faiqa - well, he did pay a $175 fine for it.Verdant Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03139591223231428391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-61391683637749596292009-11-04T21:52:04.978-05:002009-11-04T21:52:04.978-05:00I can absolutely separate the artist from the art....I can absolutely separate the artist from the art. <br /><br />In fact, I live my life by the principle that breaks people's lives up into discrete contributions. Nobody is all bad, nobody is all good. And the bad never effaces the good. <br /><br />If I didn't view things that way, I would have *killed* my parents by now.<br /><br />THAT SAID, I do believe people must be held accountable for the wrong that they do. Just like the bad doesn't efface the good, it works the other way, too. All the good deeds (or art) cannot take back violations and harm.<br /><br />And, GODDAMN, MATTHEW BRODERICK KILLED TWO WOMEN? <br /><br />You just rocked my world, dude.Faiqahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14195313677689473346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-13469226560750438892009-11-04T21:16:35.442-05:002009-11-04T21:16:35.442-05:00WLC - That's only because you always wanted it...WLC - That's only because you always wanted it. Too soon?Verdant Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03139591223231428391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-48747716984154236232009-11-04T20:13:14.989-05:002009-11-04T20:13:14.989-05:00Polanski/Jackson? It doesn't matter. Those k...<b>Polanski/Jackson? It doesn't matter. Those kids were begging for it. It's like my dad always said, you can't rape the willing.</b>Water Logged Caninehttp://keegan3d.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/wet-dog-5.jpgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-61273780218751168342009-11-04T17:03:44.865-05:002009-11-04T17:03:44.865-05:00Holly - Well choosing to drive a car while drunk i...Holly - Well choosing to drive a car while drunk is close enough to outright murder in my book. Good thing I don't have enough money to buy a Pollack to hang in my shitter.Verdant Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03139591223231428391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-17677121880159465822009-11-04T15:47:16.291-05:002009-11-04T15:47:16.291-05:00For example:
Polanski raped a 13 year old girl. H...For example:<br /><br />Polanski raped a 13 year old girl. His art will never EVER win that battle in my head because the crime overrides it.<br /><br />Michael Jackson 'touched' kids. supposedly. innocent until proven guilty blah blah blah. Don't care enough about his art to refute the somewhat shakey evidence. <br /><br />Jackson Pollack COMPLETE ALCOHOLIC ASSHOLE. But, never raped a kid, never touched a kid or raped a woman. He did kill someone when he was drunk in a car but gah. Not enough to discount his work. SO His art remains some of my favorite. <br /><br />so there ya go!Mrs. Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15360433416733092249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-14230899724393851572009-11-04T15:40:15.106-05:002009-11-04T15:40:15.106-05:00It all comes down to what the artist did and who h...It all comes down to what the artist did and who he was, how it conflicts with my values and which values they have pissed on.<br /><br />It also comes down to their art. If they art is worth me battling the refrain in my head whilst I enjoy their art. <br /><br />The refrain being 'they did something horrific'. <br /><br />so yeah, it's a balance to see what wins in my head. <br /><br />does that makes sense?Mrs. Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15360433416733092249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-65793432877240294962009-11-04T13:59:16.622-05:002009-11-04T13:59:16.622-05:00Bruce - Vick is a great example. Of a jackass. B...Bruce - Vick is a great example. Of a jackass. But yeah, I hear ya. Makes it tough for me because I am both an avid animal lover and an avid Eagles fan. It's not surprising that I haven't watched a single Eagles game this year even though I have had a few chances. Just seeing him in that uniform puts a bad taste in my mouth. But the man was convicted of his crimes and he served his time. And he seems repentant. I dunno...this is a tough one. I'd prefer if the Cowboys or the Giants had signed him. Then it would be easy for me.Verdant Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03139591223231428391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-32458556793719537902009-11-04T13:55:19.638-05:002009-11-04T13:55:19.638-05:00On a follow up note, regarding seperating the art ...On a follow up note, regarding seperating the art from the artist, what about those that HAVE paid for their transgressions. Should they be foregiven and their art once again be made accessable to the masses? <br /><br />This whole conversation got me thinking about Michael Vick and his little pit bull dog fighting enterprise. He was charged, expelled by the NFL, went to jail and now (surprise) he is back playing in the NFL. <br /><br />As a dog lover, I could not imagine what he did to those canines and personally, would not even consider paying to see him play football, nor his team play. But then again, he claims to have reformed and paid the price for his actions. This is one example where I could not seperate the artist or his art regardless, as a previous commentor mentioned, because I don't want to support or help this guy profit.Bruce Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10898228670873232050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-59126702037315882902009-11-04T13:24:38.182-05:002009-11-04T13:24:38.182-05:00Bruce - I never bought into the "different ti...Bruce - I never bought into the "different time, different attitude" defense. And while I find the man to be abhorrent, I don't believe it's necessary for him to serve any further jail time. The only true justice, in my mind, would have been for the girl's father or brother or uncle or somebody to punch him square in the face every day for a period of 13 years. The age of the girl. But that boat floated a long time ago. I was merely using his case as a part of my question.<br /><br />Sybil - Amen, sister!<br /><br />Jimmy - I dunno, but it was two women who were killed so maybe that's what you are thinking of. I'll check it out.<br /><br />Becky - A new argument. I like it! You can appreciate the art and separate it from the artist, but you won't put money in their pockets by buying the album or paying to see the film. I can wrap my head around that. :) And Kanye may be the new Duke of Douche, but he ain't no kid-toucher. As far as I know. Not that it matters. I don't appreciate his "art" either way.Verdant Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03139591223231428391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-67199371224216983632009-11-04T12:58:23.273-05:002009-11-04T12:58:23.273-05:00also? i think i can appreciate the art because it...also? i think i can appreciate the art because it isn't like i am trying to be friends with the artist. if they are a good person we won't be friends if i buy their album, if they are a horrible person we aren't gonna be friends if i buy their album. considering i don't normally buy albums anyhow, it doesn't matter one way or another because my money ain't giving them the opportunity to be more of a douchebag (coughkanyecough).hello haha narfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07172128004814968237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-58361271305282246652009-11-04T12:55:38.174-05:002009-11-04T12:55:38.174-05:00absolutely i can separate the art from the artist....absolutely i can separate the art from the artist. i can appreciate a movie or song or book on its merits alone, regardless of what asshole wrote, starred, sang, etc. <br /><br />that being said, i won't pay for said art if it will line the pockets of the fucker who raped little kid(s).<br /><br />and anyone who stands up for a trial jumping child rapist, saying they should be somehow forgiven because so much time has elapsed? yeah, they should be beaten stupider.hello haha narfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07172128004814968237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-36675149147417746762009-11-04T12:55:20.115-05:002009-11-04T12:55:20.115-05:00I agree in principle with Legalmist, but the Brode...I agree in principle with Legalmist, but the Broderick incident was a farce. I have it in my head somewhere, that he was involved twice in similar death crashes. <br /><br />I might be wrong..Barlinniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07555629852012324360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-59304230621111685762009-11-04T12:54:29.683-05:002009-11-04T12:54:29.683-05:00I just read Bruce's comment above mine (I thin...I just read Bruce's comment above mine (I think), and while I get what he's trying to say, totally, I also know that it happened here, and therefore, he is subject to our laws. Our judicial system is indeed pretty fucked up, when we put people away for years for weed but repeat convicted rapists and molesters are out on parole. There's a billion other examples and more people pleasing reasons why our judicial system is screwy, but that's just one.<br />I hate Roman Polanski. He's a fucking troll who plied a teenage girl with drugs and alcohol to fuck her in the ass - literally. That is disgusting on any count. The fellow actors who are pretending this was "so long ago" and it doesn't matter anymore can all go to Hell as far as I'm concerned. Does (or did) the man have talent? Absolutely. Does that make him a decent person? Well, in my view, a decent man not only admits his guilt but also serves his fucking time. A spineless piece of shit runs away, as he did.<br />Obviously, this got me kinda riled up.<br />:)<br />The Dogfish Head punkin ale was delicious!sybil lawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13629349319977383547noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-67144158682103485402009-11-04T12:22:00.971-05:002009-11-04T12:22:00.971-05:00Hmmm, a surprisingly intellectual post from a man ...Hmmm, a surprisingly intellectual post from a man that likes greasy food and bacon flavored bourbon.<br /><br />It depends on the artist and the work and it cuts both ways. Polanski reached his peak in the late 60s and 70s and I haven't been to impressed with his stuff since. Mind you, this guy is somewhat of a tragic figure in someways. Born in Post WWII Poland, married to Sharon Tate, that whole Charles Manson thing, and then the rape. He obviously comes from a different world and culture. <br /><br />He probably fled, more because he did not trust the American Judicial system (and neither to I for that matter....and I work in it). In his world, raping a young girl was a fine and maybe a year in jail. In ours it was life imprisonment. I can't condone what he did, but his view of the world and mindset is different. There are still large areas of the planet where selling your daughters into sex slavery is perfectly okie-dokey. Doesn't mean it is right, by our standards, but it is acceptable in theirs. <br /><br />I can admire Tarentino's work, but personally, don't like it. Speilberg is competent, but I won't go see his films just because his name is attached anymore. <br /><br />Life has taught me to try and understand another persons point of view and life history before I condemn them for their actions or their art. I recall that in the 90s, people were disgusted by Robert Maplethorpe's photography of gay men, but I found them fascinating, because he made me understand how homosexuals see their world and others (insert gay inuendo here). <br /><br />As for Polanski, justice delayed is justice denied. He is an old man now. The only person that his incarceration serves at this point is the prosecutor that is putting another notch in his resume.Bruce Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10898228670873232050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-18677929003165143262009-11-04T12:03:47.038-05:002009-11-04T12:03:47.038-05:00Mik - It was eerily similar to the formula he foll...Mik - It was eerily similar to the formula he followed in Rosemary's Baby.<br /><br />Zibbs - or work with him.<br /><br />Wabbit - Anybody?Verdant Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03139591223231428391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-38424472924183090642009-11-04T12:02:16.191-05:002009-11-04T12:02:16.191-05:00Avitable - I hear ya.
Slyde - See what I mean fol...Avitable - I hear ya.<br /><br />Slyde - See what I mean folks about taking it to another level. Being mad at Woody because his father killed someone? C'mon! You wouldn't want to talk about it either.<br /><br />badger - I wasn't saying that they were the only ones responsible for the finished product. Just the most important is all. And it is in varying degrees. As for Robert Towne, let me put it this way. Polanski has made films that are considered classics both before and after Chinatown. Name anything else that Towne has done that is even in the same league as Chinatown. Bonnie and Clyde was script doctor work. So was Heaven Can Wait. Mission Impossible? C'mon. He's a one-hit wonder. Polanski isn't.Verdant Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03139591223231428391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-32194857.post-72391051444063130232009-11-04T11:59:37.070-05:002009-11-04T11:59:37.070-05:00Preach it Brother Earl!!!
Gotta agree.
Dr Zibbs ...Preach it Brother Earl!!!<br /><br />Gotta agree.<br /><br />Dr Zibbs said...<br /><br />'I can't understand how anyone could defend him'.<br /><br />Now that's a different matter. I'd defend anybody...white rabbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15693920049571164318noreply@blogger.com